Jewish Atheist

Anonymous asked: I dont get why everyone is jumping down your throat for defending your opinion. You both raise valid points, you just disagree on them. Plain and simple

Thanks for the common-sense support =]

Anonymous asked: no problem dickwad. have a nice life.

Btw, the above is the response I got from the anon to my post telling him he could leave (x). That itself was written in response to something s/he sent me which concluded with: “i’m going to unfollow if you keep this shit up.”

While I hate to see a follower go, that kind of message is quite obnoxious. My blog is for me. I try to be fair in my critiques, but if you don’t like what I’m saying - or that I’m speaking at all - then my blog isn’t for you. And threatening to unfollow me just isn’t going to work. Especially if you’re just a random anon, like the one who called me an “antisemite athiest” [sic]. *cough*

eretzyisrael:

Something to think about - Share this with your environmentally conscious friends.

1) As if most frum Jews cared.

2) As if that was their motivation.

3) As if they’ll start driving once emissions free options are available. Hell, they won’t even ride a bicycle.

4) As if it’s not counteracted by leaving lights and AC/heating on all weekend, eating tons of meat, emitting their own chulent gases, and using plastics for everything.

This is just an obnoxiously misleading poster. It’d be more apropos - and just as idiotic - if used to promote the Amish.

Oh, and think of how much CO2 emissions I prevent from not driving to synagogue or yeshiva anymore. =]

Hey Anon

You can’t please everyone all the time, and right now, that everyone is you. Tough break.

Buh-bye.

JAOAJ-Awkward Hugs - Part V

jaoraj:

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Chabad asks, ‘Can you be too religious?’

“No,” the article (x) concludes after very little analysis (and despite the actual title of the article, “Holier Than Thou – How Religious Is Too Religious?” But let me quote Rabbi Yoseph Kahanov who wrote the article for CrownHeights.info:

In summation, you cannot be too religious, or too holy, more than you can be too good or too happy. To be too holy is like being too in love; it’s one of those things that if a little bit is good then more is even better.  Who could understand this better than a society that is proudly and unabashedly “Fanatic” about its sundry sports, rock groups and TV shows?

It seems only fair that if you can’t be too crazy about your favorite rock band or foot ball team, then you should not be able to be too crazy about G-d, especially when you consider the fact that He created your favorite musical icon or sports team.

1) Actually, I think it is possible for someone to be too good or even too happy. Extremes can be dangerous.

2) I have to disagree with what seems to be to be equating sports fanaticism and religious fanaticism. For one, I think many people use a phrase like “sports fanatic” somewhat colloquially and not literally. More importantly, what does a sports or music or a tv show fanatic do? Well, they’ll cheer vigorously for their team, listens to lots of music from their favorite band, and watch their favorite show one too many times. That’s about it. What about a religious fanatic? Fanatical belief in religions tends to redefine and restructure the entirety of a person. It’s not just about loving synagogue and learning torah. It takes over their life. That is very different and, imho, dangerous. Religious fanaticism also has a long history of despicable behavior, such as sexism and homophobia (which is still effecting society today), slavery and murder, and a thousand untold horrors. This is not something you see with a fanatical fan of a tv show.

3) But you might find someone like a soccer hooligan, who does beat someone up bc of his sports passion. And guess what? Most people believe such people are wrong. We denounce their fanaticism.

In short, beliefs immune from criticism and rational discussion, beliefs one desperately hold dear despite all evidence, beliefs which can have ill effects on the individual and society - and especially when such beliefs are fundamentally and fanatically held - yes, those are dangerous.

4) God did not create sports teams and musical bands. This isn’t rocket science. These people work their asses off to get where they are. God played no part in it. In fact, there’s no evidence that god exists at all. But when one is a fundamentalist, and believes god and the bible etc are all literally true, then someone could write that claim and not realize how idiotic it sounds. In other words, the rabbi’s last point is, imho, an example of how dangerous being “too religious” can be. 

So if you asked me, I’d say that “too religious” begins once someone accepts these supernatural beliefs as literally true. Once you begin to accept that, for instance, the bible is literally the word of god, you are already setting yourself up for more dangerous beliefs and behaviors, such as immoral attitudes toward women and lgbts, such as glorifying genital mutilation (circumcision), such as becoming and spreading scientific ignorance (e.g. age of the earth; evolution), etc. In short, don’t be an actual fanatic.

Anonymous asked: I wasn't going to join this debate but two people have mentioned at this point "Jewish by Nazi standards" and that' doesn't really mean much. Jewish by Nazi standards doesn't mean Jewish by Jewish standards. They went back several generations on either the father or the mother's side, so if your great grandfather was Jewish but no one else then you were too, even if that's not accurate. Can we just keep that in mind going forward? Thanks. =]

That example (one of several, btw) is precisely the point: different groups may use their own definitions. And that’s totally fine as long as it’s clear whose definition you’re using and why. So, for instance, while I may disagree with the nazi standards, a geneticists, for example, might find it useful.

Anonymous asked: "nothing vicious or malicious" about it? are you fucking kidding me? man, you went to her blog and reblogged her post calling her "issue" fucked up, telling her she's making a big deal out of something that you consider nonsense but that she considers important, calling her a faker, a liar, and childish. why am i sticking up for her? because she didn't ask for it. you went out of your way to call her on her shit. you may not have intended "malicious" but that's totally how it came out.

1) I didn’t go to her blog. I went to the jewish tags.

2) I said that not touching your own family is fucked up. I don’t think that’s malicious. It wasn’t personal or excessive, and I still really think it is.

3) I didn’t tell her anything. My post (x) wasn’t directed at her at all.

4) “Faker, liar, and childish”. Actually, I did not. The OP wrote that she wanted to continue hugging her cousins - even though it’s technically not allowed - so she’ll have an option to help be mekarev (missionize) them. To that I responded: “If you have to pretend your beliefs aren’t so extreme to keep people connected, then you’re deceiving them and it doesn’t speak well of your beliefs.”

5) Thanks for the feedback.

Anonymous asked: Hello, I'm a fellow "Jewish Atheist", so I relate to a lot of what you say. I also understand what that other girl was saying though about the whole "if you don't follow the mesorah then by your definition you're not a Jew" thing. I grew up religious, but I was turned off by what and how I was being taught. I too have come to the conclusion that there is no God, but despite the fact that I grew up religious and would be considered Jewish by Nazis I wouldn't consider myself Jewish at all.

Well, you can define yourself how you like =]

Personally, I consider myself 100% Jewish - though 0% religious.

Anonymous asked: Most people wouldn't trust a lawyer who came into court wearing shorts and a tank top, whether or not he's highly regarded in his profession. I think what the S.A. is saying is not that the body is offensive, but that when you hold yourself in a higher esteem you don't just flaunt what you've got and you're always aware that you're not alone. After all, you don't see a prostitute completely covered or the president of the US in booty shorts. Also, you claimed it mentioned mirrors and it doesn't.

Hello again Anonymous person,

1) So you think that putting on your clothes while standing out of bed in the morning is “flaunting what you’ve got”?

2) Are you actually trying to contrast Jewish modesty rules with how a prostitute may dress? Are you actually trying to suggest that the same way we expect a lawyer or president to dress respectfully while in court or congress, that the same idea should apply to everyone no matter what they’re doing - as jewish law suggests.  Is the world really that black-and-white for you? Cause you know, those lawyers and even the president will be fine wearing shorts while playing ball or in their house. And I’m pretty sure neither of them get dressed under the covers.

3) Actually, I never said the shulchan aruch mentioned mirrors. I cited it as a source for my contention that you can’t look at yourself naked. My original post (x) never mentioned mirrors. JAOAJ mentioned mirrors in her response. I simply cited my source. And if you think those sources - such as kitzur s.a. which says not to be naked even in the dark! - doesn’t include watching yourself naked in a mirror, then you’re in a very deep trench of denial.

Anonymous asked: i used to respect you for your view on the world and whatnot, but i can't if you seriously claim you were thorough in any response you made to her. i just reread the whole thing and you skip over a bunch of shit to respond to specific lines. she only called you a liar in terms of the whole defining thing you were both going on about. also @thearcanetheory he went to hers first. her response was a natural defense. as an unbiased second party, you're being a douche. cut the bullshit and just stop.

Hey Anon,

Which stuff did I skip over?
And yes, I responded to her post first. I usually check the Jewish tags for interesting topics. I wrote a few observations about her situation and how I think it relates to common orthodox mentalities. There was nothing vicious or malicious about it.

And I’m curious as to why you’re defending her on grounds that her response is a “natural defense” but do not, apparently, apply that to me? Is it bc I responded first? Do you think what I wrote there (x) was so out of line?

—

I really need some second opinions here. Who thinks my responses are out of line, and who thinks that responding is perfectly ok?

Anonymous asked: I was directed to your page by a friend who loves political and religious debates and I read through the entire discussion you've been having with that other lady. While I find your responses to each other entertaining and fascinating, I felt I should point out that The Shulchan Aruch (2,1) says nothing about looking at yourself naked in a mirror. The actual wording is about pulling on a shirt over your naked body before you get out of bed. It says nothing about a mirror there.

 One should not put on his undershirt while one is sitting.  Rather, while still lying in bed, one should first place his head and arms through the garment Then on should put it on.  Therefore, when one gets up he will be covered.
 One should not say “behold I am in the most concealed of rooms, who will see me;” for the Holy One Blessed be he fills the whole world with his glory. - (x)

The Kitzur Shulchan Aruch also mirrors this expression when discussing how “he should be very careful not to expose his body…” (even in a dark room!) (x) (Also worth looking at the next halachot there where he discusses not dressing like the non-jews, wearing expensive clothing, putting on two things at once - since it “causes memory loss”, walking upright, nor walking between two women or dogs or pigs.)

Do you really think this is about anything other than seeing yourself naked and how the body itself is offensive? Oh, and I love the fact that our creator is offended by our bodies.

Anonymous asked: science encourages the idea that there are alternate/parallel planes, universes, and even timelines. we can't prove any of those either. why do you feel so strongly that there's no spiritual plane?

Because there’s zero evidence for it and the idea emerged amongst a group of primitive people trying to understand things but clearly failing. E.g. What is the difference between a living body and a dead one. They both look the same. What changed. “Oh, it’s *soul* must have left.” It’s just primitive notions and about as convincing as Zeus as an explanation for lightening.

As for science, I’m intrigued by the idea of parallel universes but until science proves it, I’m still extremely skeptical. That said, at least those ideas are based on solid scientific theory. Again, doesn’t make them right, but at least it’s a basis for continuing the conversation, as opposed to simply a guess they pulled out of their arse.

thearcanetheory asked: I wasnt there for the whole argument/discussion, but I did catch the anon. And I gotta say, don't pick a fight you can't win, you guys. As it is, your atheism doesn't bother me; it's your life, your choice, and even religious folks recognize that free will Is A Thing. I'm religious; you don't bother me to try to "kiruv" me to atheism. There is mutual respect for each other's private practices in our own lives, esp since neither of us try to bully anyone else to doing what we do.

I’m not trying to bully or be mikarev theists. I’m just providing my own perspectives. The girl got took offense to my making some general comments about a post of her’s, and then tried to argue that I’m a liar, that I don’t know what Judaism is about, and that I’m not even Jewish!

I think it’s fair - if not proper - to respond to that. But I did feel a bit guilty about it precisely bc I don’t want to bully people and a very thorough response can feel that way.

I respect people’s rights to make their own decisions about their lives, even if I strongly (and vocally) disagree with the decisions.

p.s. TheArcaneTheory’s response:

i KNOW youre not trying to be “mekarev” anyone, you are speaking honestly about your opinions and experiences. that doesnt make you less jewish! for her to do those things is TOTALLY out of line, and if you beat her down, then on her head be it.

Thanks for the support =]